Off Flavored Syrup

[lobstafari]

I wasnt sure where to put this question, here in the evap category, or in the bottling category, so here it is!!
Drew off my first batch of the year today, which finally came out med amber (almost light), but had a horrible taste. It was sort of like a burnt "caramelley" taste....nothing against caramel, heck I live off Snickers bars, but no maple flavor at all. Is this the top-of-tree sap I hear of? I HOPE? If it isnt, here are the things I've done different this year:
1)Honda mini-pump (similar to Tanaka)
2)Bulk cube tank (like everyone has, with the cage) had honey in it, blasted it with garden hose off boiler to melt old honey out, scrubbed with bleach, presure washed, then rinsed real good.
3)100psi Black Water hose like everyone has
Cant figure it out on my own...never had that happen. Im not seasoned enough to have the "taste" for off-flavors. I already drained my front pan, bleached,scrubbed,and rinsed real good, and now considering draining flue pan and doing the same. Any help is appreciated, Thanks, Jeremy 8O :(

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, I went to a seminar on off flavors, I'm looking through my notes, this is what is on Caramel flavor... Bitter, strong caramel flavor often biting and bordering on burnt flavor... is a result of burnt niter.... cause:acumulation of niter in the front pan near drawoff.

does that sound like it?

[lobstafari]

Hi JIm,
I kinda thought of you when I posted, because I remember you talking about that seminar, but I dont think that would be it. Usually the sugar sand leaves spots in the pan, and its a bit early for that!! On the other hand, I was running the pan 3/4"-1", where it was mostly sap, so maybe it built up premature, or burnt on, but I couldnt see it. My filters were relatively clean. What a pain in the butt, and right off the bat too!! Thanks for going through the trouble of checking you notes for me!! Sheesh...owe you a soda now. :lol:

[mapleman3]

Someday we'll all get together and I'll take that soda :)

[powerdub]

A friend of mine up the road had off flavored syrup for the first run also. It tasted to me like metabolism that the tree goes through periodically. It should clear up in the next run. By the way, his tasted like cardboard.

cardboard ya can t afford ffood?

[lobstafari]

Thanks Scott,
Thats the kind of news I like to hear. Hopefully thats the case here too.!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

That is one good thing I have about living so far south that my trees get tons of warm weather and some even during the winter and I have never had any off flavored syrup other than stronger syrup late in the season.

You guys have weird colored sap and tree top syrup. Didn't know such things existed till I logged on the the trader a year or so ago. I guess maybe that is the reason they say the farther south you go, the better the syrup is because I have never heard of such problems. :?: :?: :?:

[michaelh05478]

My first batch last year had a off flavor.The guy at leader told me it was bacteria in the sap... May of been caused by such a cold winter, he told me a lot of people had a batch of it last year....Mine cleared up after the first run, thats probally why a lot of guys dump the first run of sap, to get rid of the bad stuff...As far as the best syrup....I think it depends where you live.....Some people think Log Cabin makes the best syrup!!! 8)

[Salmoneye]

I am still not done tapping and have replaced everything I had so far...All new lines and mains...So far I am letting all the asp that has run (and there isn't much) on the ground...I tasked the sap once it go to the shack...Between the early sap and the 'new plastic' taste, it just is not worth saving or using...

[mapleman3]

BOIL IT ALL !!! don't know whats happening to our weather here, getting too warm too fast , not many freezing night s here this week gentlemen!!! and I'm only a few hours down from you guys. I sure hope things turn for the better soon, or I'll be boiling Bud sap before I know it. have too much invested this year to have it stop early.
Watching the forecast it will get to 60 again by sat. not going to have squat to boil this weekend


Discouraged :oops:

[lobstafari]

Im hoping the sap will get better...maybe thats it, Salmoneye...I installed about 2000' of new mainline and 7 rolls of laterals this winter. I just got done scrubbing the stink out of my evaporator with hot water and a brush. I thought about filling it with just water and boiling that for an hour or so too, but garden hose is all I have to fill it unless I lug buckets, which Im too lazy to do right now. I was afraid I might get a hose taste, but then again, its been well-used for a few years in my wifes greenhouse, and might not be all that bad.....any thoughts?

[DougM]

Lobstafari,
we use garden hose to transfer from the gathering tanks to our elevated holding tanks without picking up off flavor from the hose.

Doug

[lobstafari]

Thanks Doug,
maybe Ill go try that...I think Id be more leary if it were a brand new hose. I should rig up a roll of 100 psi pipe one of these days.

[MaineMapleDave]

The flavor might simply be one of those weird maple things and the way they are metabolizing right now. I had some really funky caramelly syrup last year. Great for cooking.....

Regarding hose, there are some garden hoses that are rated for drinking water and/or hot water. I use those for cleaning all the time, and have experienced no off flavors.

Smartest thing I ever did was to rig up a hot water hose bibb outside the house, right next to the garden-watering one. With a hot-water-rated hose, I can clean the maple equipment with real live hot water.

Good luck, and have fun....

Dave

[lobstafari]

Still having a heck of a time with the off-flavor. I took off my front hood thinking it might be a galv. elbow in the steam stack, then I drained my pans, hosed them out (dumped about 10 gal of syrup in the front yard), and put the acid to them. I had an extensive amount of sand in the front chamber of the flue pan, but got everything clean, shiny stainless again. I have a raised flue small bros 2x6, and run my pans about 1 1/2"-2" deep above the flues, and 3/4"-1' in the front pan (2 section). My tanks are all scrubbed and rinsed and new potable water feed lines. The only other thing I can think of, is the smell is developing in the flue pan, over time, so maybe Ill cut my roof apart and take the hood off. Its a stainless Sm bros with a 3 foot run of aluminum w/ copper preheater. Do away with that maybe solve the problem? When I first started boiling again, it was fine for a day, then started with the wet cardboard smell, if you stick your head in the hood when its cool again. Only had one good drawoff this year. It started doing this tail end of last year, but was fine year before that...... Any ideas?/critisizm welcome/ appreciated.
PS-Jim...what level you run your pans? I think we have similar rigs, but mines older.
The general public says my syrups fine, but I think it sucks,
...and Im gettin' really bummed out!!!!

[lobstafari]

Im boiling some leftover sap right now, on the stove, just to make sure the problem is not on the cold end of things. Forgot to add, my arch is built up with sand to 1"-2" within the bottom of the flues. Theres some brown scum built up on the floats and valves, but in the pan, it relatively isnt all that dark, compared to the neighbors and stuff. Am i making syrup and burning it in the flue pan? I made syrup in years past just fine, but on a 4x12. Are the little rigs harder to fire?

[Russell Lampron]

Jeremy,

Was just looking at my Bascoms catalog again and read Bruces Corner. It said that there was alot of off flavored syrup last year that had a woody taste. It was a big problem in Canada too. Your problem may be your trees and not your evaporator or equipment.

Russ

Algier 2x6 with preheater steamhood
Stihl chainsaws and brushsaw
1930 Model AA Ford doodlebug tractor
2004 Honda Foreman S ATV with 35 gallon gathering tank

[lobstafari]

Thanks Russ,
I read that too, but was hoping it wasnt that, where theres nothing I can do about it!!! :evil: :evil: But thanks for the input. My wife just came home and thought that syrup was alright. Maybe Im just losing my taste for it, or maybe our season hasnt really started yet.....last year, it was march 10ish to about april 20ish. Now I have a zinc taste in my mouth, like after putting galv. nails in there after working on a deck or something....maybe I should go get a beer :lol: :lol:

[powerdub]

What are you using for a de-foamer? If it the stuff that maple places sell, how old is it? It could be rancid. The other thing to check that is often missed is if you have a clear plastic sight tube for a tank level indication. Smell the tube, it may not look that dirty but it could be. Filters could be another place to pick up off flavors.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

Have other syrup makers taste the syrup. Maybe you are being to paticular about it and it may be Grade A syrup. One thing is for syrup that syrup is not going to taste the exact same every year. I sure wouldn't dump it, at least sell it to Bascoms.

Send me down a sample, I have tasted a lot over the years and I will give you my opinion on it as to whether it has an off flavor. I have never made any with an off flavor, so if it had it, I would pick up on it!

Don't be too hard on yourself! I can't believe it could be anything to do with what you are doing because you know too much! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[lobstafari]

Thanks Scott,
The clear tube is one of my next projects!! I use Waterloo Liquid defoamer, 2 yrs. old, and in the fridge all summer, but as cheap as it is, I think Im going to get new, and switch to granular with a cup maybe. I hate to answer my own question, but I think its the steamhood or stack. A couple hours after tasting it, my tongue feels like Ive been suckin' on galvenized nails. Maybe Budweiser changed their can though.
Thanks for the compliment and advice Brandon, ...greatly appreciated.... Ive talked to a few guys around, and one said,"dont taste too bad,...not like maple syrup, but not bad!" I just boiled down 5 gal on the stove, and didnt smell anything too funny...maybe some burning sugars, but no wet cardboard smell. Ill let it cool and go taste it...came right out of the feed tank, so its been all around. If it aint that, its my evap, or the guy behind the fire. :lol: :oops:

[powerdub]

If it is a cardboard type aftertaste and smell that is a lot like metabolism. Is this your first or second boil? There have been a lot guys down here that had the same thing on thier first boil. It went away on the next good run.

[lobstafari]

Hi Scott,
Its my fourth boil or so, but olny had a couple REALLY good runs. I did notice almost a bitter smell when I was pumping the sap. My batch on the stove didnt turn out so good either, so I guess I can eliminate steam hood/evap. problems, which saves a huge amount of work. I guess I'll just hose everything out real good and hang tight for the next good run!! :)
I noticed an old timer backyarder pulled his few taps already....maybe he just got discouraged, or frustrated like me.... I wouldnt think its gone buddy yet, as cold as its been.-----jeremy

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, I run my flue pan only halfway up the feed tubes, so thats maybe 1" above the flues, and my front pan maybe 1" sometimes a little more .. sometimes a little less. It's curious you said it started last season. :? any chance getting someone up there to give you a third opinion, another experienced sugarer in the area?

[lobstafari]

Thanks Jim,
Thats EXACTLY how I run my pans...(1/2 way up the tubes, then about an inch in the front)....Ive given my junk samples out to a couple people locally, but they arent having any problems, and they dont know what it is :? . Just hope for better on the next run I guess :) ----jeremy

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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