2 by 6 rate

[backyardsugarer]

I have a drop flue 2 by 6 D&G with a pre-heater and steam hood. I have read that under perfect conditions you cuold boil 40 gallons an hour. I am lucky if I am at half that right now. Everything is boiling hard I am running a little above an inch of sap in the pans, the fire is popping steam is rolling but I am not even close to 40 gallons. I would settle for 30 at this point. Suggestions on something I am overlooking? Thanks

Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Sounds like you're doing a good job. It just takes time to perfect things and the more you boil, the better you will get and the higher the evap rate. One thing I would suggest is a lower level if you are comfortable. I try to run between 3/4" to 1" in mine and that will help you evap rate. Not to discourage you, but it would really be pushing it to get 40 gph, but maybe possible.

Also, try firing it different ways and play around with things a lot. A gph here and there will soon add up.

[Dropflue]

I agree with Westvirginiamapler, 40 gph is pushin it using wood. I'm using a gas fired 2x6 dropflue with steam hood, and may be pushin 30 gph. I run may pans very shallow ( just to cover the flues) and never ran in the 40 gph range. I've seen some companies advertising 40-40 gph for 2x6 evaporators. Is there any one else out there doing 40 gph using a 2x6?

Dropflue- East Aurora NY
2x6 D&G Dropflue

[mapleman3]

Chris I don't think I hit the 30 mark yet so don't worry,I havn't "pushed" mine yet, still a bit of tweaking to do!! the perfect wood, perfect barometric pressure, consistent firing ect.

[michaelh05478]

Whats your sap reading for sugar? When i boiled stuff under 2 it took for ever to draw........I throw away sap now thats less than 2, it uses too much wood for what you get unless its the last day or so of the season and ill try for a gal or so of DARK stuff..........Jim, you should make a gal or so an hour.............. 8)

[lobstafari]

Chris, try a flue brush, and get the soot off the undersides, sometimes helps, if thats dirty, also, maybe one of those soot remover logs for woodstoves. I use driftwood, and the ocean salts clean things right up shiny on the undersides of the pan. I have a 2x6 raised flue, and got almost 50 gal. hr at one point last year, and cant break 40 gal hr this year, but have worse wood. Forced induction, air injection, bigger stacks, pan/rail gaskets, and insulated fronts are all good ways to make it more than it is, too.

[FMWARREN]

I have a raised flue,with hood and preheater, 6" vent on hood 12' of 11" stack plus base and we are close to 40 but not there yet.Good clear night we will be there, we burn mixed wood but mostly cork dry pine slabs,if I was you I would add a piece of stack or a blower.FM

[guest]

Is there an inexpensive way to test sugar content? I am curious about mine, but can't afford to shell out almost $200 for a refractometer...any place rent these? or is there a cheaper device, that is almost as accurate?

[FMWARREN]

Is that D&G a 2 ft front and a 4ft rear or 3ft & 3ft ? FM

[FMWARREN]

You can by a sap a sap hydrometer use it in a cup just like syrup one

[Al]

Just bought a sap hydrometer the other day. You can use the cup or just put it in your tank. I got between 2.5-3.0% on all my readings. :D
Take care

[backyardsugarer]

The front is 2 foot and not sure about the rear. My sugar content is about 2 1/4 according to my sap brinx. I will try to get it up to 30 gallons per hour if I get enough sap on Wednesday. I am also going to try a soot brush (good idea) :P

Thanks, now I don't feel so bad about my rate.

Chris

Check ebay for refractometers. I bought one for less than $40 new. It was an atago the same brand maple suppliers sell. You need the 0-32 brix. 0-12 brix would be nice but go for more $$.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Definitely want to get a flue brush and clean the flues every single time you fire up. I didn't realize you weren't doing that. It will make a lot of difference because you can't believe how much soot and ash builds up on the flues.

I only burned wood that has been seasoned for several years and is extremely dry and I still get a lot of buildup.

She'll roll better now!

[mapleman3]

how many of you clean your flues often on a raised flue setup???

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Don't have a raised flue but I would recommend you clean them every time before you start up and it should make a lot of difference. The less buildup, the higher the boil and I don't thing a raised flue would be much different than a drop flue.

[backyardsugarer]

where would one get a flu brush? Would home deopt have one? I also need some gasket to go around my front door and some adhesive. Suggestions?

Chris

[mapleman3]

will do befor ethis weekend boil... sure makes sense.. and me being an hvac guy and not thinking of soot buildup... shame on me!! :lol:

[lobstafari]

I clean mine almost everytime I boil, but also burning pine slabwood, instead of KD hardwood strips this year. I think I like the pine better, as far as how it acts in the grates. Forced air is more noticible advantage with it too...ok, enough rambling.. :lol:

[mapleman3]

I have been burning all my scrap wood from in my barn, all kiln dried, oak, ash, beech,pine,cherry and some not so dry pine from outside, getting pretty good boils, I just ordered a brush and should have it this week... good advice guys!!!

wondering if I will get to my stack of dried oak slabwood this year?

[lobstafari]

oops

[lobstafari]

Chris,
I doubt Home Depot would have a brush that would work. Theyre stiff bristed, and kind of a particular size. Might have to order one from a maple dealer.
The gasket material should be there though....you could probably use stove roping, and pick up some gasket glue too. Also when you're there, pick up a section of a chimney sweeper brush handle if you dont already have one...youll need it for your flue brush. I think they're normally red fiberglass about 3 feet long, with threaded ends...your brush will screw right on.

Chris,
Also make sure you clean out the ashes every day. I also used to take a metal "poker" and make sure the grates were cleaned out in between. That will make a big difference if there is a large ash buildup in and under the grates.
John

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Call a dealer and they should ship you a brush today and have it by the weekend. You will need a heavy duty long pole to mount the brush on, so you may want to order one of those also.

Drop flues are similar, so you should have a local dealer that has them in stock or Bascoms or Leader will ship you one asap!

And yes, do clean the grates every time you boil and the flues, even if you only boiled for a couple of hours the previous time. Five extra minutes will pay great dividends in boiling rates.

[backyardsugarer]

I have my gasket for the door and my flue brush (making my own). I will clean tonight and boil tomorrow if the sap gods look upon NY favorably.

Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One thing is for sure is I don't think there is a 2x6 out there that will do 40 gph without modifications. The manufactures that advertise those numbers are a bunch of liers! If you add blower, preheater, air tight front, ect, then you can probably get 40 or more, but a stock evap, no way.

Leader states the average rate of a 2x6 is 30 gph and I have found there numbers are closer to the norm than the inflated numbers some of the other manufactures like Waterloo and others advertise.

[backyardsugarer]

With everything I have and am doing I better get 30 an hour. I will let you know tomorrow night! :lol:

Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Hope you do but don't get discouraged if you don't because like everything else, the more you use it the better you will get and the more gph!

Good luck!

[FMWARREN]

I for one brush mine every time I fire/just something I do before each fire
may be a waste of time but thats how I was taught.Sap ran pretty good today picked up 7 barrels and sold to my neighbor and 5 barrels for myself, woods sap was 2.2 and road side was 2.5 , made just under 4 gals. in 5 hours. med A. not to bad for that 2x6. FMW

[chris]

Chris,
Brandons right about a blower. When I had my 2x6 raised flue I was only doing 25 to 30 gph so I hooked up a blower to the draft door nothing fancy jury rigged it to get by through the season and I was doing 40 to 45 gph. all you need is a little OXYGEN to help you along and you will never boil with out one.
Chris

[Russell Lampron]

Most manufactures of evaporators advertise their 2x6 as being capable of boiling 25 gallons per hour and weither it is a raised or drop flue doesn't matter. I have an Algier 2x6 raised flue with preheater steamhood. My stack is 20 feet high including the base and I don't use a blower. Most of the wood I am burning this year is pine that is up to 3 years old and stored under cover. Sunday night I boiled in 140 gallons of sap in 4 hours. If you do the math that comes out to 35 gph, if you don't count the first hour that comes out at 46.6 gph. I had similar results Saturday night when I boiled in 125 gallons. Your boiling rate can be affected by alot of things like weather conditions, moisture in your wood, weither you have a good draft or not and how you fire your evaporator and how often.

Russ

Algier 2x6 with preheater steamhood
Stihl chainsaws and brush saw
1930 Model AA Ford doodlebug tractor
2004 Honda Foreman S ATV with 35 gallon gathering tank

[backyardsugarer]

I am getting about 25 gph (last night). I have a blower and good wood and it is boiling hard. I also made the front as close to air tight as you will ever get with new gasket and cleaned the soot. I hope I get up to 30 per hour before the weekend.

Chris

[syrupmaker]

Chris...did you ever try adding the other section of stack?

[backyardsugarer]

Rick,

Not yet, but I am going to crawl up there tonight first thing. Closing the ash drawer and sealing it helped some.

Chris

[syrupmaker]

Chris the rule is to have the stack twice the lenght of the arch,but i'm not sure if that includes the base stack or if its plus the base stack. Can anybody out there help me out here.

Rick

I think it includes the base stack. My 4x12 came with one 8 foot base stack and two 8 foot sections of straight pipe.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It does include the base stack. I have an extra 3' section on my and I have another brand new 3' section that I could add, but I am get a ton of draft already.

[lobstafari]

I watched a guy boil couple nights ago. 2x6 evap, no hoods, no preheater, wood fired, raised flue Waterloo.
8O 8O 8O 85 GPH was his rate 8O 8O 8O
I am still walking around in circles babbling, thinking about what I just saw.
OK, So heres the catch:
Intense-o-fire Arch
absolutely incredible!!!!!
Another thing he was doing which really helped me out, was he knows his evap. needs wood about every 8 minutes, so he rigged up a timer, where a buzzer goes off every 8 minutes....no resetting it or anything. Just add wood when the buzzer goes!! I think if everyone here is like he and I, its a great idea. I couldnt even count how many times Ive started yappin about whatever, showing someone the taps and tubing, etc. and lost my boil, or at least the maximum point of boiling.....so now Im off to go rig a timer. I think every 10 min on my cheezy little arch. :lol: :lol:

[FMWARREN]

At my house that would be over 2gl of syrup an hour I guess I will go look at that arch today.???? FM

[lobstafari]

uggg,,,its absolutely amazing. Ive seen it before, but never in action. $4500, just for the arch I think he said.

[mapleman3]

don't keep puttin new thoughts in our heads.. what the matter with you :wink: you wanna get me divorced :lol: , holy cow!!

[lobstafari]

Aww, c'mon! How 'bout just riggin up the buzzer? I havent figured out how to do it yet, but seems pretty cheap/junk parts. :D

[mapleman3]

Whew, thats alot cheaper than an intensofire... :wink:

[syrupmaker]

Dollar store or Family dollar has digital oven timers,battery operated but have to be reset manually.And they beat a divorce at a dollar :wink:
We started with one after the 1st week of boiling and it does make a difference in the boil for sure.I agree with lobstafari,company does get ya sidetracked from other duties.

Now the downfall side of this idea:
You need to haul more wood into the shack,cause you sure do use alot more when you have a babysitter to remind you.

KEEP THE FIRE BURNIN FOLKS :twisted:

[lobstafari]

I noticed that yesterday Rick...we used a manual timer and were SMOKIN through the woodpile, but doing around 55 GPH, which is quite high for us, and oh yeah, no front steam hood, just the flue hood and preheater. Noticed inlet 140deg, instead of 170, but also cold out. (coming in at 33)

[mapleman3]

Hard to believe I am now just getting into my cordwood for fuel... I have doen 25 gallons on all wood from the old chicken coop, shack roof and extra wood stored in the barn... it was all types of wood, now I will be burning all oak slabwood, and year old poplar, may get a timer too and keep it HOT !!!

[lobstafari]

Thats the way I fired yesterday. I use mostly pine slabs. The biggest thing I noticed, was the ability to burn larger wood, and effectively. I cranked through my woodpile but in a more effective sort of way than usual. I also hooked a variable speed control, wall mounted, up to a much bigger fan, which can blow smoke out of the back of the arch when on high, and I think most of my ashes completely burn or go up the stack too, because there wasnt much of a pile!! If anyone goes with these ideas, I should also add: my firebox is completely sealed around the base. It would make an incredible mess if it wasnt. I have a shroud where the damper door used to be, and leave the fan on low when I fire, shut the doors, then crank it up until my eyes start to water, then turn it back a notch. I have 20' of stack, and can keep a glowing flame like a propane torch coming out the top almost all the time. Its my new key to making lighter syrup too!!

[FMWARREN]

I just got off the phone with Nick at Waterloo Small, He told me they sell the arch and state up to 65gph but said it may do more .it's $3750, . you can buy a small RO for the same money. then boil 6% sap all the time.FM

[FMWARREN]

that is on a 2X6 rig

[mapleman3]

thats if everything is clicking just right.... I think you have to take their(MFG's) claims with a grain of salt!!!

[lobstafari]

Or, heck, just buy both and tap more trees!!! :lol: :lol: Where will it ever stop??? 8O 8O

[FMWARREN]

Jim there is a guy in Maine getting 85 gph.they gave me his phone # I may call him his name is LyleI don't no where but i am going to find out.FM

[lobstafari]

Frank,
Thats the fellah I was referring to. He lives in North Gorham. I can give you his contact info if youd like. Hes a super nice guy to talk with, but kinda busy right now, this time of year.

[backyardsugarer]

With the elevated hood and good wood I was getting a little over 30 GPH last night. Finally, I guess it just takes some practice.

Chris

[lobstafari]

There ya go Chris. This is my third year with this rig, and still finding out all kinds of things. Too bad we only have a month or so of practice time each year. My buddy who has been sugarin for 85 years says he learns something new everyday about sappin and boiling, tree growth, etc. Absolutely amazing hobby/business aint it?

[mapleman3]

well I adopted the wood timer idea Jeremy, it is working pretty good, I am going through the sap pretty fast, I haven't calculated it but it's burning up the wood for sure... 8 minutes seems to be a good time between firings... and a great reminder.... as I look out the sugarhouse window(laptop on wireless) the snow is just starting to flurry... 8-14 now coming!!!

[lobstafari]

Whew, glad it worked for you. It does chow through the woodpile but also gives maybe 1/4-1/3 more rate I think. I just talked to lyle, and he said his old rig (our style)he fired every 4 min!! He uses softwood slabs, but maybe they were split up finer, or more efficient stack or something. His wife also said hes full of bad advice, and just likes to see how hot he can get it, :lol: but I find with mine, 7-8 min seems to be good, and certainly more heat, and EVEN!! which seems kind of nice. Im still on the prowl for a buzzer that goes off every 8 without resetting. I guess a neighborhood eletrician made his up. It seems very simple, but nothing I could figure out how to make....seems like a good syrupmaker Rick project...hes pretty smart!! :wink: or maybe a good Mapleguys item to compliment the accucup :idea:

[syrupmaker]

Lobstafari ...for that comment i'll have to see what i can come up with for ya. I've got the bells just have to hunt a timer up. How compact does it have to be.If it fits on a pallet is that small enough? Kidding i'll look around. What i really would like to find is a guy(sorry) person tokeep track and fire for me-and tap,and collect,and draw and ,and,and,and oh well i can dream can't I.

Rick

[lobstafari]

My buddy Lyles is pretty big, I think, mounted in a switchbox? about 10"x16" maybe, just guessing. I just talked to another friend who has been handy with electronics, and he was thinking an electronic timer, screw adjustable, with piezo buzzer, 9v battery, and reset, which sounds quite compact, but like I say, I dont know jack......oh yeah, and maybe an on/off switch so it doesnt go off all night/summer :lol: :lol: joke

[ontario guy]

You could use a clock radio and keep hitting snooze, it goes off every 9 minutes i think.

Just an idea.

[mapleman3]

Hmm ontarioguy has a point there, but some stop after so many hit's, well mine did after it fell off the nightstand and broke :lol:

[lobstafari]

8O Wow 8O
....and a clever one at that!! Never even crossed my mind. Thanks for the input Ill give it a shot, if I ever get some decent sap. Very simple and easy.----jeremy

[syrupmaker]

Ontario guy... good one! The simple things that you have right at your fingertips. My luck i wouldn't remember to take it back in after a couple beers and be late for work the next day. :roll:

Rick

[lobstafari]

omigod Rick too funny :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I didnt even think of that!!! (still laughing) we must have a spare around here somewhere-----jeremy

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I guess I am on the same page with ontario guy because I thought of the alarm clock several days ago, just hadn't had time to post the idea.

Another thing is that some dollar stores have the old school time timers that you twist to set. Nothing digital about them and they are cheap!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

What kind of evaporation rate do you get on your 2x6?? Just curious as you are fairly experienced on evaporators! :D

[lobstafari]

Ive been getting around 45 this year, and more like 50 last year, but shes pretty hopped up for what it is...im not planning on my arch to last forever, thats for sure!!